Episode Transcript: Such Sweet Sorrow, part one (S02E13)

This is a transcript of our thirteenth season two recapavailable here.

Michael Burnham [From Episode]: I wish there was more time. There isn’t. I love you. All of you. Thank you for the greatest moments of my life.

re:Discovery theme plays.

Carla: Hello and welcome to re:Discovery, the Star Trek recap podcast that is so excited to talk about it, let’s just begin. I’m joined by my Science Officer Ben McKenzie Ben. Are you excited?

Ben: There’s no time to talk about how excited I am Carla. Let’s just get straight to it!

Carla: Holy crap. It’s episode 13 so you know what that means. It’s the first half of the two-episode season finale and it does not pull any punches. Even before we know what happens with Discovery the title “Such Sweet Sorrow” leads the way. We last left off with Pike calling the XO on Enterprise and beginning the self-destruct protocols on Discovery. The episode opens with Sarek meditating on the beach at sundown, he whispers “Michael” and we cut to Discovery. The crew are all packing their quarters to evacuate. The Enterprise is clearly back in action as she has arrived to take Discovery’s crew. This is the first full view we get of the re-imagined Enterprise’s bridge and I was breathless.

Ben: So good.

Carla: So good. Pike swagger is onto the bridge like a man wearing a custom-made suit. He looks happy to be home. Number One assuring him that the holograms have been fixed and will be no more. Pike initialises the self-destruct sequence remotely. But it does not complete, the Spheres self-preservation has seemingly taken over the ship and does not allow it to be destroyed. They fire torpedoes to no avail. Michael, having had a glimpse of her future by transporting the time crystal to the Enterprise, sees Leland board Discovery and kill the whole crew. She tells the bridge that they cannot destroy Discovery so the only option is to take Discovery so far into the future Control can never get the data. But however, will they charge the time crystal in time? No time to languor in the gorgeous saltiness that is the newly minted Captain Georgiou, a new Red Burst arrives conveniently taking them to the planet Xahea – you remember where Tilly’s friend Po the queen of Xahea comes from? No? Well keep going it will all make sense soon. Po is a scientific genius who has developed a way of re crystallizing dilithium so surely, she can help power the crystal.

Ben: Meanwhile in engineering Hugh visit Stamets but let’s Paul speak first. Paul says Hugh was right to say they both needed to move on so he’s planning to quit working on starships and maybe pursue that post at the Vulcan science academy. Hugh says he plans to stay aboard the Enterprise, Stamets heads off to finish the new angel suit and that’s where they leave things… Carla, what!? Anyway, we will come back to that. Po arrives and after being plied with ice cream by Tilly listens to the crew’s story, she works out a way to charge up the time crystal without needing the energy of a supernova. But there’s a drawback. The crystal will end up with too much energy and burn out meaning it’ll be a one-way trip into the future for Michael. Tyler is horrified when he discovers this but Michael is willing to go ahead with the plan anyway hoping she will end up on Terralysium with her mother. The crew respects her decision and she shares her love for them before Pike orders everyone to get back to work. Po surprises Tilly with the news that she will be staying on board Discovery when the Section 31 ships come as to do otherwise would be to shirk her responsibility of protecting her planet. Georgiou argues with Michael about her stupid plan. But Michael rebuffs her and walks away only to walk straight into another parental moment – Sarek and Amanda have boarded Discovery, Sarek having felt that Michael was in trouble through their joined katras.

Carla: Awkward.

Ben: They have come to say farewell and reveal they are proud of her. They all express their love for each other and Sarek even asks for, and gets, Michael’s forgiveness before they leave. Later Michael watches a video tutorial recorded by her other mother about how to pilot the suit but is called to the bridge, the Enterprise is close by. On the way she meets Tilly who takes her to her closest friends among the senior crew as well as Spock. They’re all staying aboard Discovery and following her into the future. She tries to talk them out of it but is touched and realizes their minds are made up. Tyler however is staying behind. He feels it’s his duty to make sure Section 31 never creates another situation like this one with Control. Michael walks away from him seemingly distraught but turns back for one last kiss. Everyone records messages for their loved ones before Pike orders the Discovery to move away from Xahea to make sure it’s not in danger from the coming conflict with Control ships and hands the captain’s chair over to Saru. Though he graciously defers the question. As the Enterprise arrives, Pike lovingly commends the Discovery crew but Control’s fleet is only five minutes away. Both crews have prepped shuttle craft with weapons to keep Control busy until the new time travel suit is ready. But in engineering Stamets, Tilly and Reno are worried it’s taking too long to charge up. Tilly suggests a plan to speed up the charging but it would mean the crystals time altering effects will leak out, making it dangerous to human minds. Reno says she can handle it and orders the others out of the room to do it and she sees the same flash of the future as Burnham before her – including the detail of an unexploded photon torpedo lodged in the Enterprise’s saucer. Tyler asks for Pike’s trust and says he must leave before the battle to do something important. Georgiou reveals to him she is Terran and then he returns to the Enterprise. After that the Section 31 ships appear and everyone gets to battle stations to be continued.

Carla: Dot dot dot.

Ben: What the actual f Carla! This episode. Holy moly.

Carla: We just have to get straight to chop chop. Is Season 3 they’re all living a thousand years in the future?

Ben: I think I think our previous listener who predicted this might have been on the money because it seems like there’s no other way. Like everybody’s going into the future. I think for a while during this episode I thought you know you said last episode maybe they’d get rid of Michael and I was like “No come on. She’s the main character” and for a while doing this episode I was “like holy moly it’s going to happen. Why. What’s what?1”. And then everyone said, “no we’re coming with you” and I’m like “Oh yeah!”.

Carla: Yeah but then I was like “Whoaaaaaaaaaaa”.

Ben: That’s nuts but also Spock’s going with them. And we know Spock ends up back on the Enterprise. So, what is going to happen?

Carla: Dude seriously if this show ends up a thousand years into the future for a couple of seasons, I will lose my mind.

Ben: That would be amazing.

Ben: It would be like because I’ve been thinking about it on the ride up here right. It’s like we need that Star Trek for now, like we know like that that the Star Trek that was delivered in the 60s to the 60s consumer right. We need that Star Trek now which is like we’re so we understand completely like all of the technologies of the Star Trek universe all that kind of stuff.

Ben: Oh yeah.

Carla: Where you know I like that, that to me would be the most logical step forward. And they were, as you know listeners would know, like they were my most exciting episodes from just, well from Enterprise and from Voyager and then I’m thinking like “maybe they like get in touch with that organization that sends all of those time travellers back to those series”.

Ben: Oh wow.

Carla: Yeah.

Ben: You think they’re the secret time masters?

Carla: Maybe I don’t know.

Ben: That would be totally amazing.

Carla: So good.

Ben: Crazy stuff.

Carla: What do you think?

Ben: Look I have no idea where this is going to end up. I, I, they could go into the future. They could come back they might find the time; the time suit might take them somewhere else.

Carla: OH MY GOD.

Ben: It might splinter time into like three different timelines and people end up in different places and will have like this weird multi fractured, you know I don’t know. I think if anything I actually feel like anything could happen but I also feel like it’s such a great set up this episode and it’s so wonderful because often when you get these two-parter of things at the end of a season I mean in old series of Star Trek it would usually be the first part of the two-parter would be the season finale right.

Ben: But now that we’ve got this two-parter at the end they’ve just they’ve taken a whole episode to set up this like intense situation and also let everyone have a chance to say goodbye which I loved and it made me think about what I love about Discovery as a Star Trek show because I feel it is a show that we need now in another way as well as the way that you were saying because we also need that compassion. We need that empathy and that care for each other which you know we saw often see missing in public discourse in the way that we treat other people who are not like ourselves or our governments do on our behalf.

Ben: And we need a show that says “no we can we can be heroes, we can be space explorers, we can be tough people doing what needs to be done and we can love each other and look after each other at the same time” and I felt like this episode like so summed that up and it’s been a theme running throughout the whole season. I think you know Pike’s little speech about being a starship captain last episode really like also brought that to the fore. But this episode really hit that spot for me and I was like yes, I need this episode if something awful is about to happen. Let me have this moment beforehand while ramping up that tension. And I mean wonder what a way to leave that like we’re all going into the future; we can never come back and we’re leaving you know our mates behind and our families and our lives behind like just huge. I’m pumped. I have not, I really don’t know what’s going to happen next episode but I’m so excited.

Carla: Yeah me too. It’s pretty limiting like it’s a pretty limiting way of looking at it for them because they don’t even know what’s in the future or where they’re going to end up but they’re working under the supposition that they’re going to not be able to come back. But I think they’re like I think it’s tied up like I feel like all threads are tied up at this point except for like what the fuck’s going to happen.

Ben: Well there’s still there’s still two Red Bursts to go so that’s presumably going to light the way to where they’ve got to go.

Carla: Potentially.

Ben: But you know and we still I mean we still I think Zora can’t come into it because like you can’t introduce that character in one episode or maybe you can because this episode showed us that they do expect us to just run with the Short Treks as being part of the show because here’s Po who is a pretty major character in this episode and makes all these references to her previous appearance without them being fully explained. So, if they’re expecting us to have watched that and understood it then maybe they are expecting us to have watched the Zora Short Trek. But I still feel like they can’t just introduce that character out of nowhere in the last episode surely?

Carla: I don’t know I didn’t have any feel-pinions about that but at the same time I feel like also we’ve had three out of four Short Treks be present in this season so I’m like is Harry Mudd in the next episode?

Ben: But have we really had the Zora one? Or are we just reading into that because we’ve had the…

Carla: Oh, that’s true, like we haven’t had it confirmed but it’s…

Ben: I still think your thing about Airiam memories.

Carla: Well not so much says Airiam became Zora. But like that what Discovery is abandoned a thousand years into the future. That’s a pretty direct through line to what’s happening right now.

Ben: True and also the Sphere data of the Sphere, spheres information has now integrated itself with the ship because you know it stops the auto destruct sequence it turns on the shields so they can’t destroy it with the torpedoes.

Carla: So how much prep background processing has been happening already?

Ben: Exactly.

Carla: Zora could have already been halfway developed.

Ben: I mean maybe Zora is an A.I that was, who knows, hoovered up by the Sphere data. It’s not I got to say only on the topic of the Sphere data. I never thought it would become this big of a thing. Not in the way that it has anyway like I liked it when they were using it. Like in Saru’s – in the Kaminar episode, “An Obol for Charon” where they were you know using it to figure out what was happening on his planet. I thought that was cool.

Carla: Or “An eyeball for Sharon” as our A.I keeps calling it. Sorry I couldn’t stop laughing.

Ben: I know, that was weird.  We look we’ve just revealed to listeners that we use artificial intelligence on this show for our transcription. So, we’re sorry if you’re frightened. It’s okay. This one’s totally not trying to kill anyone and it hasn’t injected any nano probes into us. But yeah. So, there was that and then there was Control through Airiam was trying to get its intelligence on artificial intelligence. And I thought those were two nice plot points but then it’s all become about the A.I. And so now I’m hoping that the Sphere information taking over the ship or integrating with the ship becomes more important than that because I kind of feel otherwise it’s a waste of this whole idea of this amazing archive of information if it just becomes about this one part of it. I know that might be a silly thing to think but I just yeah, I hope that they it doesn’t just vanish after this after becoming a fairly one-dimensional plot point. And it’s worked well I thought in that capacity but I think it’s just got a lot of potential to do other stuff.

Carla: To me it’s like it’s just introduced the concept because at this point in time I’m just like and what everyone’s just like” okay cool Sphere it’s got data, it’s got data, sweet let’s just download it” like what the fuck what the fuck is this thing? And it’s not that I need everything to be introduced before but I’m like “This is such a bizarro thing” and like everyone’s just like “yeah got the data okay let’s roll”. You know?

Ben: Yeah, I, well I liked it. I thought that episode I just realized I used the wrong episode name earlier because “An Obol for Charon” is the one where they meet the Sphere but I don’t know I liked it because I was so weird and you know what I’m like. I like weird aliens. And remembering more or less forced it on them to download its data. Like because it was disrupting all their systems until they let it do it and then they’re like “oh you want to share your data with us? Let’s trust you” and again that was you know that theme of trust and love that’s been running throughout the whole season. They decided to trust this weird alien entity wasn’t trying to harm them and they were right to do it.

Carla: But don’t you think there’s been also this like other sort of thing like pretty on the nose I think about faith in there.

Ben: Yeah there has been a few lines. Yeah and particularly in this episode.

Carla: Particularly in this episode about the bursts and I’m like “What is this?”.

Ben: And interestingly because you know that’s always been a thing where they’ve tried to avoid too many explicit questions about religion in most of the Star Trek shows, it comes up a lot in Deep Space Nine with the whole Bajoran religion and also it’s fairly frequently but not constantly touched upon in Voyager particularly when it comes to Chakotay’s beliefs and then they also do a bit of exploration of Klingon spirituality through B’Elanna’s storyline but it’s usually something they avoid. And that was kind of because you know Gene Roddenberry’s idea of the future we’d move past religion like he saw it as a relic from the past that we didn’t need any more which I think is a simplistic way of thinking about it but I get where he’s coming from in a way. And supposedly Jason Isaac’s said he wasn’t allowed to you know use any sort of profanity which included blasphemy because that would indicate that he had some sort of idea that was religious stuff that he was saying he was told he couldn’t say that I think I read that article was about that so he wasn’t allowed to say that kind of stuff. So yeah. Which means I thought they were continuing that on Discovery. But then I’m not so sure now. But yeah there is a lot of stuff about you know “jump and the net will appear” kind of thinking which is a bit…

Carla: And particularly now tied in parallel with like Pike going “well you know like sometimes it’s better not to know you know”. It’s just it’s been a bit it’s been a bit on the nose, eyebrow raising for me but I think it’s helped them to kind of maybe flub a fair bit of stuff in the story line some kind of get it all wrapped up. So that’s really like the biggest thing isn’t it? It’s like are they going to go to the future?

Ben: Yeah.

Carla: I can’t really…

Ben: How they’re going to get out of it if they don’t? Is the other question.

Carla: Yeah that’s true. And what does the vision mean you know? Is that a separate timeline? I kept having like freak outs that they were in some kind of temporal rift already.

Ben: Oh right.

Carla: So, they were in a loop and something and that was why that she, everyone sort of kept seeing the death of everybody on the Enterprise. Like do you remember that episode was a was it of Voyager where like they were just in a loop where they all died all the time?

Ben: Yeah yeah.

Carla: And I thought maybe that was what was happening with this but obviously not. Well who knows.

Ben: Yeah. I don’t know. I thought it was. I think it’s significant that both Michael and Reno see the same glimpse of the future although she does see the longer one where you know Leland shoots everyone but they both see that specific detail about this photon torpedo in the Enterprise. For me that was a bit weird because I’m like “Well we know the Enterprise doesn’t get destroyed because this is happening in the prime timeline”.

Carla: So that’s why I keep thinking about temporal…

Ben: Do you think they’re going to splinter Discovery off into its own timeline?

Carla: No no I just thought that maybe there’s like some kind of alternate loop happening.

Ben: Oh right.

Carla: Right. They have to bring the timelines back together.

Ben: A bit kind of like the Harry Mudd episode from season one.

Carla: Yeah exactly. Exactly.

Ben: Okay.

Carla: So that’s what I was that’s what that was the only thing that kind of gave me that indication.

Ben: Yeah, we’re definitely going to get some Star Wars style action next episode though.

Carla: Well and also this episode like the intros and the outros are like full movie, style, length scenarios with their special effects.

Ben: Yeah. Yeah. That’s true. I was thinking more you know we’re going to get a big space battle.

Carla: Oh, I thought you meant like the guy that looked like the red-faced guy. (laughs) Darth Maul.

Ben: (laughs) Oh that guy the pointy face, the spiky face guy. Yeah. No, he’d look great. We should talk, we’ve got to talk about the Enterprise though.

Carla: Holy shit. I actually, like, had tears. I had like little skin prickles.

Ben: I respect that but I’m not very as nostalgic about the original Enterprise. They’re not my favourite crew. They’re great.

Carla: I think you’ve seen all the films?

Ben: I enjoy the films. Yeah, I’ve seen all the films. But I thought they did an amazing job of re-imagining what it would look like given the style that they’ve done Discovery in. Thought that was brilliant. And I love any time you get to see that kind of stuff like…

Carla: That was the wonder in it for me. You know I was like “whoa”.

Ben: Yeah.

Carla: And I love Georgiou’s comment she’s just like “bleurgh so orange”. (both laugh)

Ben: Yeah yeah. You just wanted to be black and broody. Yeah. No, I thought that was. That was awesome to see all the crew in their uniforms. That’s a lot of set and a lot of…

Carla: I was thinking the exact same thing Benjamin.

Ben: Outfit to build. So surely, they’ve got to reuse it for something. I mean you think the Enterprise is going to come back next season.

Carla: Oh, look it’s you know it’s going to be well you know like it could also cross over into Section 31 show as well. So, it could be used in that show. I’d assume.

Ben: Yeah that’s a good point.

Carla: You know?

Ben: Yeah it’s I think it’s a thing where maybe they’ve just seen I mean this probably doesn’t work in the timeline of production but I was going to say that they saw how well bringing Spock and Pike went and so they’re like well we should have do some more stuff with this. And again, you know it seems weird to past Rebecca Romijn as Number One and then use her in like two episodes.

Carla: Are you speculating that there’s going to be another Enterprise show?

Ben: I don’t know that there’ll be a separate show. I mean there’s a lot of fans calling for it. I think that’s unnecessary. And I do want to say like Discovery has really been – I just I’ve loved it for itself. I don’t really need this other stuff it’s been really cool seeing the Pike and Spock and Enterprise stuff coming in. But I want to see more of Discovery.

Ben: Yeah. I mean we just Saru just got made captain of the ship although he was like “We’ll talk about it later”, I was like “what!”.

Carla: I just think it’s so funny that we were talking last episode we’re like “Oh I think Michael is going to go” and then we were like “Oh who’s going to be the captain?”. And now I’m like Michael’s going to go and she’s going to be the captain!

Ben: Yeah. Well yeah maybe it could happen.

Carla: And that sort of look like what the head nods were kind of a sort of circulating don’t you think?

Ben: It was, well I mean look I interpreted it as he was… I just don’t know why he didn’t say it like he says she’s going to need a new captain and he like taps the chair and he looks at Saru and Saru is like coy about it.

Carla: Because Saru is the more senior officer. And that’s…

Ben: An I, and also, he’s just kickass now, I think he is the right choice for captain and Michael might die. She’s going to be in a suit out in space. I mean I hope not. I want to make that clear. Because I just you know the thing about Michael this season and I said this a few times early on is it felt like she was really kind of being backgrounded in a weird way and which she’s the main character of the show and yet. And while the plot technically was so much about her, this season, for a long time we didn’t know that. And it felt like she just wasn’t being used very much. And so, I will be really disappointed if they get rid of her and continue the show but I’m really glad that the rest of the crew is going with her because it makes me feel that whatever happens that’s not going to be it. Like they’re all going together.

Carla: I feel like they’re creating a new show or like they’re just bringing like Discovery’s…

Ben: Soft reboot kind of…

Carla: Exactly.

Ben: It’s the same show it’s continuing on but we’re changing the format.

Carla: Because like in the first season they all went to the Terran universe. That was like, that was the Discovery show. This is like you know whatever this is.

Ben: This is Discovery “Love and Hope” edition. That’s what it is. And I love it so much so.

Carla: So, and then next season it would totally make sense that they, and but like when not the whole, pretty much the whole bridge crew signed up to go was like “Oh yeah. This is what’s happening” because, and that’s why I think that Michael was going to leave was because so many of the main characters are leaving. It’s like Pike and Spock are going back.

Ben: Yeah but they’re always temporary.

Carla: Yes, that’s true. But Jet, Jet’s going not she’s not the show’s main character Georgiou she’s going to go get her own show on Section 31 so it’s like.

Ben: Is Reno definitely leaving?

Carla: Yeah.

Ben: So, she’s not sticking around?

Carla: No.

Ben: That’s a shame I feel like we could have had more of her.

Carla: Yeah.

Ben: I mean you know…

Carla: So then is she going to die and maybe she’s the one who dies.

Ben: Well yeah, I don’t know.

Carla: I’ve got so many other little notes here. Sarek trying to smile was truly traumatizing.

Ben: That was weird was that I. I kind of liked it but also, I got to say something actually about that because in that scene he passes the buck back to Spock about the distance between them. He’s like “Yeah I respect it, I’ll keep my distance like he suggested”. But when you watch that original series episode it really does not seem like that’s how it’s been and they haven’t spoken to each other for 18 years and Spock’s just like “we won’t speak now” but he’s clearly not necessarily happy about it and Amanda sort of is certainly like this is “balls” whereas in this episode she’s like “mm hmm mm hmm yeah. You’re a dickhead but I love you”. You know that’s kind of her attitude here. That was weird. What do you think about that scene? Was it necessary?

Carla: No, I don’t. Look you know I think in terms of like everybody got a goodbye because I’m assuming that we probably won’t see Sarek and Amanda again either.

Ben: Well not if they’re like 1000 years in the future.

Carla: So, I feel like everyone got their goodbye.

Ben: Yeah it was weird it’s weird.

Carla: It was really uncomfortable. I was just like “I want this to stop now please. Cut”.

Ben: Well I also I thought from a pacing and perspective like it really kind of undercut the tension because it’s like we’re in a race against time but somehow my parents have found time to get here from Vulcan to say goodbye and you’re like “what”. And somehow found us as well why I guess we don’t know the whole you know the linking of the katras thing but yeah. But if that’s true why did they need the Red Angel’s help to find her in the forest when the monster was eating her?

Ben: Well they didn’t know the monster was eating her.

Carla: I guess that’s true. They didn’t know that she’d run away but he hadn’t katra mind melded with her by then.

Ben: Ok fair. He hadn’t done that was before she got… No that was after she got blown up! That was the whole reason she was running away. (both laugh).

Carla: Okay.

Ben: Look. That’s fine. I’m sure there’s a way to explain that. I’ll think about it and be great.

Carla: Well and now we know like Nhan’s going, sweet!

Ben: Oh yeah, she’s sticking around.

Carla: And Po’s going as well?

Ben: That’s weird isn’t it?

Carla: So weird but I’m also totally down.

Ben: Yeah, she’s great. She kind of disappeared from the episode after she told Tilly that I was really surprised she wasn’t in that scene later where Tilly, Stamets and Reno are looking at the crystal. I’m like “where are you?”. Or is she just staying? Maybe she ended up staying on the Enterprise because she’s not like going into the future with them. She’s just not going back to where she’s going to help battle Section 31.

Ben: Yeah, I think maybe that’s because it was a bit confused. So maybe she’s on the Enterprise somewhere but don’t really see her after that point on it or at least I don’t remember seeing her.

Carla: And Hugh going to the Enterprise.

Ben: Yeah. What?

Carla: What?

Ben: What does that mean he’s leaving the show. I don’t want him to leave either.

Carla: No.

Ben: But then I don’t know. How do you feel about what they did with that storyline this episode? Like one scene and it’s like Hugh not saying the thing and letting Paul say the thing which is like “oh you right we should go our separate ways”.

Carla: So awkward like they’ve been lovers for like you know a decade or something.

Ben: They’re married like you know?

Carla: Yeah. I don’t know what’s going on there but I do like that Paul was like he had come to some kind of acceptance like he’d obviously processed it to the point that he was like “I’m going to try and make a decision that’s good for my mental health”.

Ben: Yeah.

Carla: So that was positive I think and I think like sort of maybe Hugh was building a bridge to kind of be like “I don’t hate you” because it was pretty bad the last time, they were sort of communicating. So, this was more them coming together a little opening up the lines of communication.

Ben: Sure. Yeah.

Carla: I think it just made that feel better I guess for everyone and sort of give more context as to what’s happening.

Ben: Yeah, I go with that but it’s still I mean it just felt like though I don’t know felt like a scene in like a very serious drama like a romantic drama. Where like the two people they want to be together but something’s in the way and neither of them will just like say what they feel. And we’ve had, we’ve talked about how we’ve mostly avoided that this season where people are keeping things from each other which has ruined their relationships or been a contrivance of the plot. This doesn’t feel like a contrivance of the plot it does feel like genuine angst that real people would have. But it’s still immensely frustrating I’m like “Look guys just kiss already. Just come on” and I was just yeah. If they don’t if they don’t sort that shit out and next episode, I’ll be so sad. I’ll be bereft. I’m just worried it’s going to end up like, kind like at the end of season two of the new Doctor Who. Spoiler alert if you haven’t seen it. Where Rose and the doctor get separated and I kind of felt that it’s not quite the same for me cause I kind of felt that relationship needed to go somewhere else anyway but they instead of having a proper resolution they just sort of tear them apart unwillingly like they end up in separate universes.

Carla: That’s not very nice.

Ben: And I kind of feel like that might be what’s in Hugh and Paul’s future and I don’t want that for them I want them to either work it out or be okay with it. And while Paul seems to have sort of figured it out for himself.

Carla: There’s no way they could do that to those characters.

Ben: Hugh’s definitely not okay with it. He’s hiding it, he’s swallowing it but he’s realized he was wrong to push Paul away, I think.

Carla: Well that’s a bit of projection I think Ben.

Ben: Well maybe I don’t know but it seems like…

Carla: I think I think like a minimum he’s realized how much he’s hurt Paul.

Ben: Yeah, minimum for sure.

Carla: And that’s kind of like it was a regret.

Ben: He’s full of regret.

Carla: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s minimum. I’m not sure about, like, lovey-kissy.

Ben: Sure.

Carla: But you know like actually kind of accepting how much he had felt pain in the situation.

Ben: Maybe I just want some people to like to be together on this show, cause Michael and Tyler.

Carla: (chants) “Po and Tilly, Po and Tilly”.

Ben: Oh yeah, I could see that but she’s got a whole planet to run.

Carla: That’s true.

Ben: That’d only ever be, you know, a sometimes kind of relationship. But I could see that that would be fun.

Carla: I could see them…

Ben: I mean they’re totally compatible…

Carla: As Marceline and Princess Bubblegum from Adventure Time and just have their own little kingdom together.

Ben: That would be amazing.

Carla: Engineering together.

Ben: Yeah that would be cute. Yeah but what about Tyler?

Carla: Their goodbye was actually very heartbreaking.

Ben: That was that was yeah that hard.

Carla: Yeah that was a sucker punch.

Ben: He’s like basically owning that, yeah, “look I told you I believe in their mission” and he does like he’s sticking to his guns but he’s now also like “someone’s got to stick around to make sure they don’t fuck up things again like they did this time”.

Carla: But I also think that he’s someone who has just made a really good emotional decision for himself. He’s like “this is who I am. This is what I want to do. I’ve got a kid, I’m not going to fucking go a thousand years into the future, no matter how much I love this person that I have an incredibly tumultuous relationship with. I’m going to like do a solid for myself and see how shit works out in this timeline”.

Ben: What do you think he’s gone off to do?

Carla: Don’t know. That’s a very very good question.

Ben: Do you think he’s gone…

Carla: I reckon he’s going to go and get Tenavik.

Ben: Yeah. I was going to say do you reckon he’s gone to Boreth to get like… Yeah, he’s going to visit the time lords. Has he gone, has he gone to find someone who knows more about time crystals?

Carla: I don’t know. Oh, just like a rally the freaky deaky troops?

Ben: Maybe. Ah. What if he takes his torch bearer status and comes back with a fucking Klingon battle fleet to blow up Section 31. How sweet would that be?

Carla: That would be good.

Ben: I mean it wouldn’t work because he’s supposed to be dead and the Klingon. That’s a giant leap.

Carla: (laughs) That’s true I forgot about that.

Ben: But but but it was a sweet thought for the two seconds it took for me to realize how wrong it was.

Carla: There’s only a few other notes I have for this – original torpedo sound.

Captain Pike: [From episode](torpedo sound effect) “Fire”.

Carla: Killed me.

Ben: Ah and also the original door sound when they get on the Enterprise.

Saru: [From Episode] “All Discovery crews accounted for the Enterprise.” (door swoosh sound)

Carla: Oh my god!

Ben: It made me realize that we hadn’t heard it on Discovery like their door sound is different. And I didn’t realize that but it was great. Yeah.

Carla: I have Georgiou’s best quote for this which is she calls a Michael “some galactic rubber band with a martyr complex”. (both laugh)

Ben: That is amazing.

Carla: Whoever is writing Georgiou’s dialogue is having a great time.

Ben: That’s true.

Carla: Other than that, I thought Pike looked ragged. Obviously, everything is playing on his mind.

Ben: He’s been through the wringer.

Carla: And still so elegant and kingly in shutting everything down.

Ben: Yeah.

Carla: Wrapping everything up.

Ben: Yeah, he was really onto it and just the way he’s just again you know the kind of show we need right now – a leader showing great empathy for the people that he is in command of.

Carla: And dignity.

Ben: Yeah absolutely.

Carla: Immense dignity you know and really understanding what people need in order to thrive in their relationships and in their working life. You know for me, like him and Michael like, Emmys for sure man.

Ben: Oh yeah.

Carla: Like unbelievable performances.

Ben: Oh yeah.

Carla: And they carried a lot of this show when it was like pretty loose in terms of storyline and everything that was happening. Their performances really floated the boat in this sometimes so. Yeah, I hope they get the accolades that they deserve.

Ben: Yeah, they should be up for that for sure. What did you do? I mean I obviously you know famously I love the extended bridge crew and they all got little while lots. Most of them got little moments. I thought they might give Nilsson a bit more dialogue in this episode but she didn’t get any. She was there. She got like Pike talked about her but she didn’t get to say anything that was interesting so I wonder if she’ll get a bigger role next season if she’s still around.

Carla: Well she’s going with so…

Ben: she’s going with them which has been a surprise he’s like “Do you even know each other?”. I guess you do but yeah, I loved that a little letter writing scene.

Carla: Yeah.

Ben: You get that little short backgrounder reminder. I particularly like Owosekun’s one where she’s like writing to her family going “I know you don’t understand” because she’s from the Luddite community so she’s like “I don’t you understand me going out to space on a starship and learning how to use this technology”. But yeah, I just loved all of those little moments though they were great.

Carla: Yeah, I think they’ve done a really good job of carefully giving us like little breadcrumbs so that we know enough. And so, like for this. So, we’re set up for the next season like we’ve got a pretty good profile on the bridge crew. We don’t really know much about Rhys or Bryce. But that will happen soon. I think.

Ben: They might be our only characters next season, like we might not get a new captain. It might be Saru in charge and yeah who knows?

Carla: So exciting.

Ben: Yeah.

Carla: Do you want to go to Short Chats?

Ben: I think we should.

Carla: OK.

Carla: Now it’s time for re:Discovery Short Chats, where we talk news trivia and anything related to anything now. We will also be taking questions but we only have one more episode. So, send in all of your questions to our social media. Yeah maybe if you have like season wrap up questions maybe we could do like a little short episode after the season and answer some questions.

Ben: That  might be a good idea.

Carla: Yeah so send them through. What do you have today Ben?

Ben: I don’t know that I have a lot to be honest. I was kind of emotionally overwhelmed by this episode.

Carla: Fully. It was hectic.

Ben: And it’s also been quite a hectic week and weekend for me so I watched it late at night in bed and I and I loved it but I was just sort of yeah left going “What!”. But I am intrigued by the visions of the future and what they’re going to mean and I think you know I was thinking about other shows that have done those sorts of future visions and other times we’ve seen those sorts of glimpses of the future. It’s not clear which kind of time travel future glimpse we’re looking at in those situations. Mm hmm. So, is it like Pike taking the crystal, this is definitely a future? And if so, what does that mean, how are you going to get out of it? Or is it like this a potential future now you have the means to avoid it like in so many other you know time travel stories. So, I was I was thinking along those lines and I’m just not I’m not sure.

Carla: Well mine is completely superficial.

Ben: I’m fine with that.

Carla: Hugh is like Wolverine level ripped, like it’s ridiculous.

Ben: Yeah yeah.

Carla: And your kind of a bit like don’t want to objectify him but you’re just like “whoa what is happening under that uniform?”. Go to his Twitter account. All these people are calling for him to be some black superhero. I don’t know what the superhero is and he’s like “Yeah hire me”. Like pulling up his shirt full Myspace selfie picture and the dude is like he’s like the most ripped person I’ve ever seen in my life.

Ben: Well I mean when he had his shirt off a few episodes ago I mean well…

Carla: He was probably doing a bit of a power pose as well like you know turning on to the side and got those obliques and everything.

Ben: But when his body got rebuilt like it got rebuilt with like 0 percent fat. Not 0 percent you know 0 percent excess fat. It’s like he’s like you are at peak human condition my friend.

Carla: Yeah.

Ben: And yeah look he’s amazing.

Carla: Yeah.

Ben: I want to see him and more stuff for sure.

Carla: I’m always curious about the white uniforms. Like I’m like “Yeah, I guess what you don’t ever deal with any kind of body fluids anymore, Star Fleet medical?”.

Ben: Well they just chuck it in a disposal unit and print a new one. Like it’s not a problem, I guess. But it’s good. I mean you want to. It’s like when you wear a lab coat you wear a white lab coat because you want to know when you’ve spilled things on you. That’s why they’re white. Because if you spill something on yourself you don’t want to be like “oh I didn’t notice because a black uniform and now my skin is burned off”. You want to know immediately.

Carla: I’m such a grub that I’m like I see anyone wearing a white anything and I’m like “wow you think you’re the king of England”. (both laugh)

Ben: It is weird because he never from memory, you don’t see such a distinctly different medical uniform in any of the other shows. They just wear the same uniform as the science division. So, I think it’s good in that sense to me but yeah, he does look good in it. He fills it out well.

Carla: So, then I have one question left for you.

Ben: Yeah.

Carla: Is like are you are you going to be watching Friday Night? Are you going to download? Are you busy? Are you watching on Saturday? What is your what is your situation?

Ben: Look I’m going to watch it as soon as possible.

Carla: 7:00 p.m. Netflix release, Friday Australian Eastern Standard Time?

Ben: Yeah, I mean I haven’t fixed my schedule for next weekend. It’s all over the place at the moment but I’m hoping I will watch it as soon as it comes out. There’s no I mean I’ve avoided spoilers this whole season. There’s no way I want this last one so I’ll be keeping off the Internet that day.

Carla: You got to do you can’t be on from midday Friday.

Ben: Okay. Because that’s when it’s on.

Carla: That’s when the first screening happens, I think. Eastern, on East Coast time.

Ben: Yeah right. Yeah. Okay.

Carla: So 12:00 p.m. It’s cactus but until 7:00 p.m. which is like, that was the reason why I started downloading it because it’s too long of an internet blackout for me.

Ben: It’s hard.

Carla: It’s just Twitter. But still you know what I mean like.

Ben: Yeah. Although I don’t, I find that as long as I’m not looking at the feed from the re:Discovery podcast account it’s not too bad because I don’t follow that many big Star Trek fans it seems on my personal account. I don’t know why but I don’t see as much.

Carla: No, they probably just have the sense to not spoiling anything.

Ben: Yeah back in the day you know when there was no internet downloading of episodes or streaming and if you wanted to see a show that was aired overseas before it got here which was usually like six to 12 two for infinity months later what you had to do is ask somebody in another country to tape it for you and mail you a cassette. I got stuff like Sliders the first season of Sliders I got from America. I think with season seven or eight of Red Dwarf I got on VHS from someone in the UK via a friend here in Melbourne and we were very respectful of spoiler space back in those days because the main way you talked to people online overseas was on mailing lists or newsgroups and so what you would do to avoid people reading your spoilers is you would to a “dot dot dot dot dot dot” and you’d words in that said “spoiler space” and you respected it because it’s like you might not be able to see this for 12 months. Let’s not have a whole conversation about it that excludes you because you can’t watch it yet and I think you know that’s the dimension of spoilers that people forget it’s not just about preserving a surprise for someone it’s also about not locking somebody out of a discussion because you can’t talk about this because you haven’t seen it so you haven’t got an opinion about it all you can do is listen to our opinions about it and ask questions and I think that’s an element of why spoilers are important that often gets forgotten.

Carla: I’m ruthless if anybody spoils anything for me, I unfriend them and unfollow them.

Ben: It’s like this is not happening again no.

Carla: Bye see ya later. I had I had the Drag Race finale ruined for me once and I was like “That’s it!”.

Ben: Oh wow.

Carla: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah. I’m not that ruthless but I’m quite cautious.

Carla: Come on mate. We’ve had the internet forever. Like everyone knows what the deal is.

Ben: I think now though people expect that everyone has seen relatively easily see something.

Carla: No there’s a 48-hour embargo.

Ben: You know what I got spoiled about the worst one I got was the “Red Wedding” in Game of Thrones and it got spoiled for me by the M.C. of an event I was speaking at and being at that event was one of the reasons why I hadn’t seen it yet. And he spoiled it on stage for the whole audience and I was, I was not impressed.

Carla: What a jerk.

Ben: What it was like “that is not cool dude” like he thought you were making a cool hip reference but it’s like Sunday and this was aired in the US on Friday like that is not cool.

Carla: Yeah that’s not cool.

Ben: So yeah, I was I was unimpressed by that.

Carla: All right well we’ll hit play together at the same time.

Ben: Is that a pact?

Carla: And then we can message each other on Slack.

Ben: Okay well we’ll do it. That’s a pact.

Carla: All right. And you guys as well hit us up as soon as you’ve watched it. No spoilers though on the Twitter.

Ben: Yeah.

Carla: We want to hear what you think and how you feel.

Ben: And tweet the re:Discovery pod account because you know that way if we haven’t quite got there yet we can ignore it.

Carla: You’ve been listening to re:Discovery. All links to creators are in the show notes on our website rediscoverypodcast.com. We’d love to connect with you, as we’ve just said, so please add us on Twitter and Facebook @rediscoverypod.

Splendid Chaps: re:Discovery is brought to you by Splendid Chaps Productions. Find more entertainment for your ears at splendidchaps.com.